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flatts1

Striper Bycatch

44 posts in this topic

Charlie-

You mentioned an intersting subject: the always dreadful "hook-in" release. I have done it on several occasions. With all the educated fishing minds here, I was windering if there was any survival/mortality data floating around out there, or if anyone just has some good info on this topic. Thanks. Later.

-old

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That is a very good question OLD. I also have a big dilema(sp) about cutting the line. Everyone says that the hook rusts out in a few weeks but what does rust do to a fish?? Sometimes there is no other way around it ya gotta leave the hook. I try to make myself believe that the fish has a better chance than even trying to get the hook out.

Charlie they kiss the fish on the head on that new show "ON THE HOOK" I have been doing it for years. Maybe this year I won't and maybe this year I wil catch keepers!!

BTW I picked up 2 striper swipers at Walmart!! That along with my Salty Bugger should give me a good start!! NOBODY CAN SAY I DON"T TRY REAL HARD. I am just one of those people with a cloud on my shoulder. F that though I'm still trying!!

post-8-1082243922_thumb.gif

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StriperSwipers should be illegal. You will catch a keeper this year. How many oz's? If it's over 1.25 you'rer golden.

Just cast, pop/jerk. wait 1, wait 2, wait 3, reel, reel, pop, repeat.......fillet.

;)

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If you're surfcasting you must be using at least 20# test line. Once the fish is spent 5 yds off the beach just put the rod in the holder and hand walk the line to the fish. If the fish is big and runs just drop the line. No schoolie is going breakoff on 20# anyway.

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BMunson wrote:

"If "Stripers Forever" is all about greed, then why is their effort endorsed by Rip Cunningham in the May editorial of Saltwater Sportsman?"

Bruce, don't forget CCA also is pushing for gamefish status of striped bass - and Mr. Cunningham has been a noteworthy supporter.

cca-donors.jpg

http://www.joincca.org/position/2003/game%20fish.htm

http://www.cca-ma.org/CCA%20Spring%20Newslttr.pdf

Recently I came across the following excerpt in a message regarding the topic of striper bycatch (bold added by me)...

So we have what appears as if it would be a win-win situation; more striped bass would end up going home to dinner and fewer striped bass would end up needlessly wasted. But this isn’t acceptable to the recreational fishing activists, with their public-be-damned philosophy that every fish in the ocean, as long as it tastes good and “puts up a fight,” should belong to them. It’s unfortunate that they can find such willing political support.

Now the fellow who wrote this is a representative of the commercial sector and when I first read it, I thought to myself, now here's a guy who just doesn't understand the recreational sector. Then I thought about it some more and I wondered - maybe it's really me who doesn't.

There are some things in life that shouldn't be an "us VS them" battle. I like to catch fish and I like to eat them. I don't know about you folks but I get skunked my fair share of the time.

Best,

Mike Flaherty

Quincy, MA

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Hi Mike,

As you know, I have studied and thought a great deal about opening the EEZ to Striper fishing.

I understand much of the scientific information.

I see multiple sides to the political situation.

But I can't get by several conclusions I have personally reached, the chief of which is this:

Making an approved commercial bycatch of stripers is for all practical purposes the same as opening a directed commercial fishery on stripers. There will be a segment of commercial industry which will target stripers and then "claim" they were bycatch. Therefore, if NMFS wants to approve a bycatch level, then NMFS should balance that rule so that the Total Allowable Catch remains at the same level as it is right now.

The landings and sale of striper bycatch plus targeted striper catch must remain conservation neutral to the amount of the current hard commercial striper TAC.

This is not an "alien" concept you know. The American/Canadian sharing agreement for Georges Bank Cod sets hard TACs for each country. That cod hard TAC is composed of landings PLUS bycatch. When landings PLUS bycatch equals the hard TAC, the fishery is supposed to shut down for that country, (or the country which exceeds its hard TAC loses a percentage of the next years TAC to the other country).

(By the way, does this mean that the Canadians "own" the codfish? Wouldn't that conclusion be reached by the commercial representative you quoted?)

So - if we establish a directed commercial bycatch fishery of stripers and count that amount as part of the TAC, I wonder just how many days the commercial season will remain open?

If you have some way of explaining where I'm off base in this position, I'm all ears. I do not have a closed mind on this situation. (Please remember, I am not a striper fisherman.)

Got to run. UPS just arrived with my new spey casting line.

Bruce

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Bruce:

Not that this will answer all your concerns but:

1.When the EEZ is opened it will be for both Rec. and Com. fishing, not just Com.

2.The only legal place for fish caught in the EEZ by agreement between NMFS and ASMFC will be in the varioius coastal states where the fish are landed and sold.

3.When the EEZ is opened, ASMFC does not contemplate allowing any increased quota. Therefore, a commercial will have to sell in the state he is licensed in and under that states' daily and season quota, license, etc.

4.Unlike NMFS, all of ASMFC's state quotas are Hard TACs and enforced. If a state overfishes one year, it must reduce it's quota by the overfished amount the next year.

5.Allowing fishing in the EEZ, under the above rules, will not increase the total allowable coastal commercial catch. It will allow both commercial and recreational fishermen a bigger pond to fish in.

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What methods of fishing are allowed for commercial fishing of striped bass? I believe that it is rod and reel hook and line only right now. Am I correct? Would a legal striper bycatch be by other means? Trawlers? Gill nets? Longlines? I have no problem with commercail fishing if it is selective and not damaging to the enviroment. Tell a trawler that he can sell striped bass and he'll make a swipe at them for sure.

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In Ma it's hook and line only. RI is Hook & Line and Trap Net. ME, NH, CT and NJ don't allow com. fishing. I'm not sure about state's to the south. I know that no states allow trawlers and don't believe any states allow gill nets and these fish, even in the EEZ are in much too shallow water for long-lining.

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Bill -

Are you saying that if the EEZ is opened for commercial striper exploitation, that commercials would only be able to catch stripers with hook and line fishing gear in the EEZ?

This would mean that any boat bringing in any stripers from the EEZ could NOT have any nets aboard. You will have an enforcement nightmare if the CG has to make a determination whether any stripers were caught in a net or on hook and line gear. If there is o net on board and there is a good shot that hook and line was the gear used.

Why can't you use a long line "or tub trawl" on top of Stellwagen "in the EEZ" with 500 hooks for cod? Wouldn't this be a subset of longline gear?

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Bruce,

I read your message and I don't see where we disagree. I originally wrote that I too "fear" that allowing comms to sell bycatch stripers may open the door for them to actually target them. That is why I say that the current figure of 2,000,000 lbs needs to be set in stone but indexed as a percentage as the assesments fluctuate. Strict daily limits need t obe set per boat per day as well. If this is done, it simply would not be worth a comm to target stripers but if they do encounter some stripers at least they will be able to sell them and not waste them as dead or dying discards.

As you may or may not know, something very similar is going on now in the comm dogfish fishery. This year there will not be a directed fishery for comms in MA. This is because a number of enviros have made the case that dogfish are on the brink of collapse (I'm not kidding). However, comms will still be allowed a bycatch allowance of 600 pounds (I believe) of dogfish/day. This may sound high but the figure is really quite trivial considering that the directed fishery allows 7,000 lbs/day (not a typo). So while comms can't target dogfish, they can at least make use of the few they catch incidentally.

Back to stripers, I support the bycatch landings of stripers to be counted against the directed fisheries quota. While it stinks for the guys who are fishing with cleaner gear such as hook & line, Stripers Forever is correct (did I say that aloud?) in that this bycatch is occuring due to commercial fishing so it should be held against them (assuming these fish are allowed to be sold).

It's sort of like what happens right now in the recreational fishery where a guy who uses circle hooks (which are proven to reduce discard mortality) has the same bag limit as another guy using 3 separate barbed trebels on a lure. It's recreational discard mortality any way you look at it and it would be a nightmare to separately manage.

Now let's say for a moment that your (and my) worst fear is realized and that all of a sudden comms of all types are allowed to target stripers in the EEZ and state waters. The bottom line is that ALL these fish will be literally counted toward the comm quota once they are brought to a state for sale AND the state regs where they are landed will prevail. In other words, in MA even draggers will only be allowed to sell 40 stripers a day (4 days a week) because that is the daily limit for comm striped bass. I believe in RI the daily limit is only 4 fish/day.

If this does happen then the only folks who will really be hurt are the fellow comms. At least with the current comm FMP, hardly anyone in MA lands 40/day. However, if netters are allowed to target stripers, then their season will max out in about 4 days and the price for their catch will be litterally worth pennies whereas it now lasts about 21 days (hook/line) and the price is arguably viable.

I hope this helps. Like I said, I don't think we disagree if you would like to see less fish (of any species) discarded dead or dying.

Later,

Mike

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Bruce:

I should have been more explicit. The key to this whole thing is that the com. fisherman fishing in the EEZ is regulated by his state. Obvioiusly, the com. fisherman fishing Stellwagen is limited to rod and reel only. Nets, long-lines,etc. are not allowed by Mass. law.

They are also only allowed to sell 40 fish/day, as noted by Flatts. I'm sure someone will say that the Portland boats fish Stellwagen and they do. But Maine does not allow the sale of wild-caught Stripers and neither does New Hampshire. Sure, the Maine boat could sell its fish in RI but that is unlikely as they would need a RI state permit to land the fish and the limit is 4/day there. And, yes, some small draggers have Striper permits and they do sell up to 40/day in Mass. But every fish sold in Mass goes against the state quota.

Though illegal, there has always been a directed fishery for Stripers in the EEZ in New England currently. Boats from Cape Ann, P'town, Chatham and Harwich regularly take Stipers on Stellwagen, East of Chatham and Nantucket Shoals - but they are limited to selling a max. of 40 fish per day under their state permits. These are mostly jig-boats who are also taking Cod on the same trips. They fish chunks for Stripers while jigging for Cod. And, sure, some of the tub-trawlers take Stripers and sell them but again, the limit is 40 per day.

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Onshore wrote:

"And, yes, some small draggers have Striper permits and they do sell up to 40/day in Mass. But every fish sold in Mass goes against the state quota."

Are you sure Onshore? I'm pretty sure that it is ilegal to posess stripers in Mass waters if your boat is equipped with nets.

Mike

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Onshore wrote:

"And, yes, some small draggers have Striper permits and they do sell up to 40/day in Mass. But every fish sold in Mass goes against the state quota."

Are you sure Onshore? I'm pretty sure that it is ilegal to posess stripers in Mass waters if your boat is equipped with nets.

Mike

I did not say they did it legally... The boat itself would never sell the fish cause it would be reported as part of it's landing document and they would be in deep you know what. Most small boats have crew who have Striper permits and they sell them illegally.

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Back to my original point. The comm guys will catch and sell anything they can get away with. Onshore you defend the less destructive comm fishing but the fact is that the jig guys are just following the rules because it works for them. In your last post you admit that the trawlers catch fish "accidentilly"and sell fish illegally. Even if trawlers can't sell a specific species, it they catch it and throw it back it's dead anyway. The nets destroy the bottom. They transfer over quota to other under quota boats. To comm fishing "bycatch" is just another word for "more fish, more money".

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I infer from Onshore's claim that there are commercial folks who catch stripers illegally but sell them legally (if that makes any sense??). In other words, no matter how they are caught, the stripers are being sold by licensed commercial fishermen.

If this is the case, again, the comms are only cutting the throats of the other comms because the HARD quota will max out much faster than it normally would.

Also Tunaman, I share your concerns for habitat destruction - but that is another topic.

Mike

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I have no problem with striped bass being caught on rod and reel commercially and sold with a max quota. I do have a problem with non-selective fishing techniques that either produce a bycatch of whatever because by their very nature they are non-selective or produce a large throwback catch that is already dead. Like sword longliners, that throwback thousands of undersized swords or blueshark plus the tuna bycatch that are already dead. The stick boats are fine because they are both species and size selective.

It is amazing how irresponsible the comm fishing industry is and unable to self regulate their own resources. They decimated the fish stocks then cry that they can't make a living. If the US lumber industry behaved like them there wouldn't be a tree in sight.

That's why I wouldn't trust them to manage a bycatch of anything.

Check out this link http://www.bigmarinefish.com/extinction.html

Gillnetted blue marlin.

blue_marlin_gillnetted_equador3.jpg

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